Jacqueline Novak and Kate Berlant aren’t wellness gurus.
Jacqueline Novak:Our friendship began in the belly of the beast that is stand-up comedy.
Stand up is a weird, crass world.
Photography by by Phylicia J. L. Munn
Kate Berlant:Stand-up is different from when we started, honey.
Now it’s for hot people.
When we started, it was for nerds and the hideous.
Photography by Phylicia J. L. Munn
Then one day, it was like Jacqueline and I, seeing one another across the bar.
[Berlant acts out a brief moment of recognition.]
Novak:Oh, my God, exactly!
Photography by Phylicia J. L. Munn
Berlant:“You also do this?”
Novak:There was a bond, or a recognition of qualities.
And then the brothers-in-arms bonding of comedy festivals.
And by sharing a hotel room, I mean sharing a bathroom, right?
Berlant:That’s what I was going to say!
We performed at Bard College, my alma mater.
And it’s before Airbnb this is a true B&B.
Jacqueline and I arrive at 11 p.m., with Chex Mix and Cup Noodles…
Novak:My nightmare.
To be clear, I actually adore Cup Noodles, but the only thing open was a 7-Eleven.
We get to the place, we fire up the door, and there are these stairs.
And then we see a man… Was he in boxers?
Berlant:I think he was in a bathrobe.
[Novak and Berlant erupt into laughter.]
But we shared a bed.
And I have restless legs.
I kicked through the night, and you suffered that.
And I was like, “This bitch…”
Novak:That sounds deranged.
Berlant:No, I think you were awake!
Novak:I think the joke of our friendship dynamic is anxious-avoidant.
Kate is anxious about getting lunch dates on the books, which makes me avoidant.
She feels me resisting and she goes harder to lock down the lunch.
Berlant:Let’s just say I text you something and you don’t respond.
Novak:You know I love you.
You know it’s coming.
Berlant:I know if I’m having a breakdown or a full thing, you’ll be there.
If I text you something and you dont text back, I’m not like, “Bitch!”
I’ll drop everything.
We’re not trapped in a school system.
Berlant:The shared understanding of each other’s limits and an encouragement not to resist them.
Novak:Shes lying around being moved.
When she picked up, I was so overwhelmed with joy.
Novak:I believe you were on the floor, writhing between cat and cow [poses].
I think a friendship is almost like a space that you occupy with someone.
We have our room.
And we do certain things in our room.
Berlant:That is a fucking genius way to approach all relationships.
We need different rooms for different people!
If you were just my critical theory friend, that wouldn’t be as fun.
Berlant:[Laughs] Thats part of Poog.
There’s something really comforting about when you feel like you’re in a friendship that will endure.
It’s exciting in a way you don’t get with romantic attachment.
“Oh, we’ll grow old together, but we won’t have to sacrifice ourselves.”
Because of my life, [it’s] always suggested I follow these Instagram therapists.
I saw this one talking about letting friends go.
She said the average friendship lasts a cycle of seven years.
Novak:I never trust wisdom that involves specific numbers.
Berlant:Relationships require maintenance, and sometimes you disengage and come back together.
I’m speaking specifically about relationships between women, where the stakes are so high.
Attachment between women is really intense.
Its not like obligation equals closeness.
I just want to feel a sense of relaxation.
Berlant:We assume we’re relaxed around our friends, but that’s so not the case.
Novak:What does it mean to be relaxed with friends?
And then you have your little roles within a friendship that can be fun.
Like, Kate enjoys when I “free” her, okay?
I go in with some targeted perspective when I see an area where I think I can free her.
[Laughs]
Berlant:Truly.
She really does free me.
Recently I was spiraling about something, and I kept saying, “Thank God for the friendship.
Thank God for the friendship.”
Friendship is the most important thing in our lives by far, I would argue.
Friendships should look like whatever they naturally look like.
It’s the wildflower garden instead of the hotel landscape.
I love the individuality of a given friendship.
Berlant:My intimate friendships are as valuable to me as my romantic relationships.
Novak:When you fantasize about the [dying in the] twin beds…you said 80s.
I prefer to say we’re 115.
Berlant:We’ll be into our 100s.
Novak:With all these new light therapies, it will be grand.
I remember my grandmother and her best friend were ultimately in the same care facility.
My grandmother’s best friend goes, “It’s fantastic.
We do whatever we damn well kindly.”
Berlant:I take so much comfort in that.
If you’re a woman who is partnered with a man, he’s gonna die first.
Then you’re finally free to hang out with your best friend.
